Michael Kocáb has been the Czech Republic’s minister for human rights and ethnic minorities since January 2009, taking over from the previous Green Party nominee for the post. He has been confronted by a rise in extremist violence in the country and a surge in Czech Roma seeking asylum in Canada, a move that prompted the country to reimpose visa restrictions on Czechs. The former rock band star become involved in politics in the summer of 1989, becoming a key intermediary between domestic dissidents and the then-Communist leadership as the regime crumbled and later helping oversee the withdrawal of the Soviet army.

How many Roma are there in the Czech Republic, what proportion of them are unemployed and what percentage of children attend secondary school? Such figures are hard to come by...

According to a 2001 census, there were only about 30,000 Roma in my country. This is clearly wrong. We believe this number is closer to 150,000, but other estimates say 200,000 or even 250,000. I would say 180,000 is an accurate estimation. Most of the Roma lead a quiet life in the Czech Republic, as other minorities would. However, in cities like Litvinov, Chanov or Most, where social exclusion is deep seated, some 60% or 80% of the residents are Roma. In the districts where unemployment is highest, we estimate that 80% of the locals are Roma. I must add here that almost everywhere the Roma tend to find ‘unofficial’’ work in the ‘black economy’. Also, let me reiterate that in absence of actual figures we cannot but rely on estimates [a survey conducted by the Czech Ministry of Education should provide figures by the end of 2010 on how many Roma children attend secondary school - Ed].

So what is your general approach?

We provide a strategy, a concept. It is for the other ministries - education, social affairs, health and housing - to come up with specific programmes. Many journalists believe that it is our job at this ministry to implement the programmes, but they are wrong. As for the needs, around CZK12-15 billion are needed to come up with a new stock of social housing. The problem is that social housing facilities do not exist any more, the towns and local councils have privatised them. In 2007, the World Bank said that CZK10.6 billion were needed to solve the problems relating to social housing. The state must face this fact if it really wants to address the problem of Roma ghettos. The Ministry of the Interior has a series of associated issues to deal with: several people lend money to the Roma at excessive interest to capitalise on their poverty, and there is also the scourge of prostitution and drug abuse. Life in a ghetto corrupts everything. Slave labour is a common occurrence, with Roma workers at the mercy of employers who may or may not pay them. We are working on a complex package to address these problems [a broad policy on Roma integration should be presented to the Czech government for approval within the next month].

Do you think that the situation of the Roma is better or worse today, 20 years after the fall of Communism?

Compared with that time, some things are better and some things are worse. The forced assimilation programme that was pushed through by the Communists was in many ways a good solution. The Roma had the same rights, the state simply did not see them as Roma. Today, there is more liberty, but for many – and I am talking about the lower strata of the population – liberty and freedom are not of much use. So, for some it is better and for some it is worse. Also, I must admit that I do not have a clear understanding of how the Roma lived under Communist rule, since I was not dealing with this problem at the time. But a lot of Roma people say that the situation has got worse. At the same time, the government and parliament’s approach has noticeably improved. With the notable exception of some four MPs, who espouse quasi-fascist ideas, they are open, approachable and ready to look for solutions.

Should there now be some form of positive discrimination in favour of the Roma?

People do not like the sound of the term ‘positive discrimination’ around here. But I believe that there has to be a sort of state intervention if problems, such as [Roma] parents not sending their children to school, are to be solved. We need to ensure that a segregation policy of the US type does not exist here as well. Perhaps there has been such kind of segregation in schools. We still have around 30% of Roma children attending schools for children with learning difficulties, when as a proportion of the population that should be 2% or 3%.

Would you agree that in the Czech Republic the majority’s perception of the Roma is negative?

The majority’s perception is not favourable toward the Roma, it is even unfriendly. But there are problems here on both sides. Stereotypes and xenophobia abound, which engenders fear. There is no broad acceptance of a multicultural society. That is true not just for the Roma but other minorities as well. In some areas, such as music and culture, these prejudices have been overcome. Some Roma people are superstars here, such as Gypsy.cz (the Czech entry in the Eurovision song contest). But these problems have been with us for 700 years. These prejudices have deep roots. It will take a long time to overcome them. We are trying in small ways but it is a work for a hundred years to come.

Do you think the problem of the Roma is for the national governments to solve or should it be dealt with at a European level?

During our EU Presidency, we treated this as an EU-level issue. I was chairman of the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council for half a year. We put the Roma issue on the agenda and it is still there today. At one point in time a directive may be adopted, but it is very difficult to obtain consensus because of the different approaches of the different states. Most of the former Soviet bloc countries - Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic – share the approach of an inclusive policy. Germany and France have a different approach. They feel that the problem has been solved. Although it is still on the EU’s agenda, they believe that this is a problem for national governments to tackle. I think that of all the former Soviet bloc countries, we are perhaps in the best position when it comes to Roma inclusion. Perhaps Hungary is better off, but there are problems with extremists there, who obstruct their advances. We have to find a way to ‘put a lid’ on extremism. In Slovakia, there are the so-called osady, villages or settlements where the people are completely segregated and live in a catastrophic state. The visa row between the Czech Republic and Canada can at least partly be explained by the fact that the Roma here live under relatively better standards. It is certainly not easy for them to make arrangements to emigrate, but in Romania, for example, they do not even have a passport and they generally have no idea how and where to get one. I think that Hungary will soon find itself coping with a similar visa problem…

Is it difficult to find qualified Roma representatives in your country?

There are a lot of competent and qualified Roma people out there – some would even make very good ministers. But we have only about 200-300 Roma people who hold university degrees. There is one I know who has degrees from three universities and is still working as a taxi driver because he cannot get another job.

How is this possible?

Because ours is a xenophobic society, that’s why.